vegan in suburbia

Do you believe that we (sentient, conscious beings) have a moral obligation to not cause pain to any living thing? Animals eat each other all the time.. have we evolved past that? (I'd like to note that I believe humans to be herbivores but was just wondering what your opinion was on this matter).

I’d like to believe that we’ve evolved to the point where we’re intelligent enough to realise that we don’t have to eat or harm other sentient, conscious beings in order to get all our nutrients and thrive. 

But yeah, I also believe we’re more likely to be naturally herbivorous anyway so the “oh we’re ‘meant’ to eat meat” argument seems pretty ludicrous to me regardless of ethics.

Hi there, sorry if this is has been asked before but I'm interested in your thoughts in regards to 'traditional' food harvesting methods. My father catches fish on a line in a tinny and we eat that, hes only allowed 5 fish I think. I think this is *ethical* as it's very primitive way of harvesting food, also recreational fishing is super super strict. And our neighbours rear chickens in her yard (about 5), we get eggs off them as well. What are your thoughts? Thanks!

Hiya. Well I’m not the vegan police but I really don’t see any form of killing as being ethical. Fish have a nervous system and there’s been studies showing that they feel pain. If I was a fish I wouldn’t want the end of my life to involve having a hook through my mouth and then being suffocated as I am being dragged out of the environment that enables me to breathe. 

I also don’t like contributing to the overfishing that is happening - whether that be 5 fish or 500, my conscience feels better if I’m not part of the reason that certain fish are becoming endangered or the ecosystem in the ocean is getting all messed up. Fish are needed in the sea to keep everything in balance - they’re not ours to take. Besides that, I really like fish and hurting them would make me feel awful.

Reading over what you’ve written I’m not really sure you understand the ethical values of being vegan. It’s not about regulating quantities of dead beings - it’s about causing as little harm as possible. In whatever way we can. There isn’t a kind way to end another being’s life. That being said, many people have emotional ties to their “traditions” and it can become a heated topic when it’s brought up with them (particularly with people like your dad (presumably) where it’s a big part of their lifestyle and personal history). 

As for chicken’s eggs - I guess it just comes down to chickens not being there for our own purposes, whatever is theirs isn’t ours to take. I’ve read that chickens have been known to eat their own eggs and whereas I’m not sure this is true, or common, I’d prefer to just not eat them myself. I mean  this is all besides the fact that an egg is a chicken’s ovulation material which icks me out.

I hope that sheds some light on a different viewpoint :) 

are informed non-vegans bad people?

I think the answer to that is too complex to give a simple yes or no to. First off, just because someone is vegan, doesn’t make them a good person. There’s a lot of other factors to consider when attempting to gauge whether someone is a good or bad person. Too many factors, is it even possible? And really, who am I or anyone else to be a judge of that anyway?

Secondly, people are informed and continue to do terrible things all the time and the reasons for that can vary from (amongst other things) having shitty ethics, or a lack of willpower or simply not being as well informed as they think they are. 

This is an important concept because in my experience, I’ve known a lot of people who have attempted to go vegan but have struggled and every single time I’ve noticed that they usually lack the knowledge that I am privileged enough to have. I know what happens in slaughterhouses and on dairy “farms”. I’ve watched the videos, I’ve read the statistics, I’ve read books and studies, I’ve witnessed this stuff in real life. To have seen and learned as much as most fully-fledged vegans have but to still not live vegan, then perhaps I’d be inclined to doubt one’s ethics, their morality, their “goodness”. 

That being said, all it ever took for me as a child to not eat animals was to realise that the steak on my plate was once a cow. My mum never told me, but I figured it out. I liked cows, I knew the one of my plate was dead. I didn’t need to be taught that murder was bad to know it was bad. But I did need to be told that the meat on my plate was once a living creature. Once I learned that the liquid oozing out of my lamb chop wasn’t “juice”, but blood, I was horrified and just knew that it was wrong.

The fact that most people detach themselves from this is due to a combination of things; clever marketing, tradition, laziness. A lifetime of being told that something is wrong, is right - doesn’t make it right though. My mum had a plethora of excuses when I was growing up for why we ate what we did. And that’s still what I hear these days from omnivores, excuses. Or selfishness. Or uneducated “facts” like, “but we need dairy” or opinions like, “but animals are here for our use”.

There have been periods in my life where I ate and drank animal products- even though I knew what I was doing. Does this make me a bad person? Probably. I had no good reason for doing so and feel extreme guilt about it. I feel that I was being a bad person, just the same as I’d feel like a bad person if I intentionally contributed to another person or non-human animal’s suffering now. I did it because I wasn’t as educated as I am now but I still knew in my heart it was wrong. 

In the end, I don’t feel like living a vegan life is a choice.  It’s in tune with my ethics to do as little harm as possible in my time on earth. I don’t need to be taught and have extensive knowledge about the fact that murder or rape of humans is bad to know that it is bad, the same goes for the rape and murder of non-human animals.  Sometimes it just takes people time to get their head around it. I mean, I still drive a car and I’d like not to for numerous ethical reasons but it’s taking me time to learn how to be self-sufficient without one. Does that make me a bad person even though I’m informed?

 Or is being a “good person” in modern life like trying to blindly navigate a mine field? Fucked if I know. If I believed in god, I’d be happy to leave it in their hands to decide whether I’m good or bad but until a higher power makes themselves known I’m just trying to do the best I can.

And I expect that everyone else do the same.

Hi I also experimented with the lcrv diet and it did very good things to my body. Unfortunately it is a little difficult and expensive to eat completely raw, so I decided to be less strict and I eat like 75% raw now, but still low fat, and this works for me. Somedays are still 100% raw though. I love your blog btw! xx

Hey! (Did you mean hcrv? Because I don’t eat low carb! I eat high carb/ low fat.) Sorry to hear you found it difficult and expensive. As for me, well, it kind of depends on how you meant “difficult”. I personally didn’t find it too hard lifestyle-wise but then I think it’s definitely something that’d vary between people. For example, I spend most of my time at home and it is always easy for me to prepare a fresh salad or smoothie, whereas working or studying people might find it harder to carry their food with them, or buy it where they work/study. Some people might find it harder socially but I don’t tend to do meals with friends or family so that isn’t an issue for me.

In terms of difficulty with the “eating of” aspect - I didn’t find that hard either. I found eating fruit for breakfast and dinner and a salad for lunch just as easy if not easier than preparing a standard vegan meal. In fact, the only difficulty that I really find with eating raw is the occasional urge to eat cooked food (mostly boiled potato or chick peas).

Because of that, I trialled incorporating more cooked food into my diet, starting with maybe eating boiled potato once a week as a treat. In no time, this was a total slippery slope to doom. For the past two weeks I have been eating rice cakes and various other things every day. My health has completely suffered - mentally and physically! Not only that but whilst I was eating raw, I avoided most of the colds and illnesses my family had for three months. In the past two weeks since introducing non-raw foods into my life, I’ve gotten sick THREE times. A stomach bug, a cold and an allergy on top of it!

As for cost, I guess this would totally depend on where people are located too. I’m really fortunate to have access to a lot of well priced fresh produce and I can get things like bananas really cheap from local markets. This isn’t the case for everyone so I’m thankful for my privilege in this regard.

Anyway, I must say - it’s totally subjective and it’s a completely personal thing. My story obviously isn’t going to be everyone’s story - there’s just too many variables. I honestly think that high raw is still really awesome and mad props to you for eating this way. If I could trust myself to exercise willpower, I’d probably find it enjoyable and doable too. Unfortunately, because of my complex health issues - eating 100% raw just seems to be the way to go, for me.

I totes think everyone could benefit from eating a higher raw diet. Thanks so much for your message, it’s great hearing people’s experiences. You’ve got a lovely blog too, I’ll follow back from my primary account. xxx